TREATISE ON THE LOVE OF GOD

 BOOK I. CONTAINING A PREPARATION FOR THE WHOLE TREATISE.

 Chapter I. That for the Beauty of Human Nature God has Given the Government of All the Faculties of the Soul to the Will

 Chapter II. How the Will Variously Governs the Powers of the Soul.

 Chapter III. How the Will Governs the Sensual Appetite.

 Chapter IV. That Love Rules over All the Affections, and Passions, and Even Governs the Will, Although the Will Has Also a Dominion over It.

 Chapter V. Of the Affections of the Will.

 Chapter VI. How the Love of God Has Dominion over Other Loves. 29

 Chapter VII. Description of Love in General.

 Chapter VIII. What Kind of Affinity (Convenance) It Is Which Excites Love.

 Chapter IX. That Love Tends to Union.

 Chapter X. That the Union to Which Love Aspires Is Spiritual.

 Chapter XI. That There Are Two Portions in the Soul, and How. 45

 Chapter XII. That in These Two Portions of the Soul There Are Four Different Degrees of Reason.

 Chapter XIII. On the Difference of Loves.

 Chapter XIV. That Charity May Be Named Love.

 Chapter XV. Of The Affinity There Is between God and Man. 54

 Chapter XVI. That We Have a Natural Inclination to Love God above All Things

 Chapter XVII. That We Have not Naturally the Power to Love God above All Things.

 Chapter XVIII. That the Natural Inclination Which We Have to Love God Is not Useless.

 THE SECOND BOOK. THE HISTORY OF THE GENERATION AND HEAVENLY BIRTH OF DIVINE LOVE.

 Chapter I. That the Divine Perfections Are Only a Single But Infinite Perfection.

 Chapter II. That in God There Is But One Only Act, Which Is His Own Divinity. 66

 Chapter III. Of the Divine Providence in General.

 Chapter IV. Of the Supernatural Providence Which God Uses towards Reasonable Creatures.

 Chapter V. That Heavenly Providence Has Provided Men with a Most Abundant Redemption.

 Chapter VI. Of Certain Special Favours Exercised by the Divine Providence in the Redemption of Man.

 Chapter VII. How Admirable the Divine Providence Is in the Diversity of Graces Given to Men.

 Chapter VIII. How Much God Desires We Should Love Him.

 Chapter IX. How the Eternal Love of God Prevents Our Hearts with His Inspirations in Order That We May Love Him.

 Chapter X. How We Oftentimes Repulse the Inspiration and Refuse to Love God.

 Chapter XI. That It Is no Fault of the Divine Goodness if We Have not a Most Excellent Love.

 Chapter XII. That Divine Inspirations Leave Us in Full Liberty to Follow or Repulse Them

 Chapter XIII. Of the First Sentiments of Love Which Divine Inspirations Cause in the Soul before She Has Faith.

 Chapter XIV. Of the Sentiment of Divine Love Which Is Had by Faith.

 Chapter XV. Of the Great Sentiment of Love Which We Receive by Holy Hope.

 Chapter XVI. How Love Is Practised in Hope.

 Chapter XVII. That the Love Which Is in Hope Is Very Good, Though Imperfect. 109

 Chapter XVIII. That Love Is Exercised in Penitence, and First, That There Are Divers Sorts of Penitence. 112

 Chapter XIX. That Penitence Without Love Is Imperfect.

 Chapter XX. How the Mingling of Love and Sorrow Takes Place in Contrition. 117

 Chapter XXI. How Our Saviour's Loving Attractions Assist and Accompany Us to Faith and Charity.

 Chapter XXII. A Short Description of Charity.

 BOOK III. OF THE PROGRESS AND PERFECTION OF LOVE.

 Chapter I. That Holy Love May Be Augmented Still More and More in Every One of Us.

 Chapter II. How Easy Our Saviour Has Made the Increase of Love.

 Chapter III. How a Soul in Charity Makes Progress in It.

 Chapter IV. Of Holy Perseverance in Sacred Love. 138

 Chapter V. That the Happiness of Dying in Heavenly Charity Is a Special Gift of God. 141

 Chapter VI. That We Cannot Attain to Perfect Union with God in This Mortal Life.

 Chapter VII. That the Charity of Saints in This Mortal Life Equals, Yea Sometimes Surpasses, That of the Blessed.

 Chapter VIII. Of the Incomparable Love Which the Mother of God, Our Blessed Lady, Had.

 Chapter IX. A Preparation for the Discourse on the Union of the Blessed with God.

 Chapter X. That the Preceding Desire Will Much Increase the Union of the Blessed with God.

 Chapter XI. Of the Union of the Blessed Spirits with God, in the Vision of the Divinity.

 Chapter XII. Of the Eternal Union of the Blessed Spirits with God, in the Vision of the Eternal Birth of the Son of God. 157

 Chapter XIII. Of the Union of the Blessed with God in the Vision of the Production of the Holy Ghost.

 Chapter XIV. That the Holy Light of Glory Will Serve for the Union of the Blessed Spirits with God.

 Chapter XV. That There Shall Be Different Degrees of the Union of the Blessed with God. 163

 Chapter I. That as Long as We Are in This Mortal Life We May Lose the Love of God.

 Chapter II. How the Soul Grows Cold in Holy Love.

 Chapter III. How We Forsake Divine Love for That of Creatures. 171

 Chapter IV. That Heavenly Love Is Lost in a Moment. 174

 Chapter V. That the Sole Cause of the Decay and Cooling of Charity Is in the Creature's Will. 176

 Chapter VI. That We Ought to Acknowledge All the Love We Bear to God to Be from God.

 Chapter VII. That We Must Avoid All Curiosity, and Humbly Acquiesce in God's Most Wise Providence.

 Chapter VIII. An Exhortation to the Amorous Submission Which We Owe to the Decrees of Divine Providence.

 Chapter IX. Of a Certain Remainder of Love That Oftentimes Rests in the Soul That Has Lost Holy Charity.

 Chapter X. How Dangerous This Imperfect Love Is.

 Chapter XI. A Means to Discern This Imperfect Love.

 BOOK V. OF THE TWO PRINCIPAL EXERCISES OF HOLY LOVE WHICH CONSIST IN COMPLACENCY AND BENEVOLENCE.

 Chapter I. Of the Sacred Complacency of Love and First of What It Consists.

 Chapter II. How by Holy Complacency We Are Made as Little Infants at Our Saviour's Breasts.

 Chapter III. That Holy Complacency Gives Our Heart to God, and Makes Us Feel a Perpetual Desire in Fruition.

 Chapter IV. Of the Loving Condolence by Which the Complacency of Love Is Still Better Declared. 207

 Chapter V. Of the Condolence and Complacency of Love in the Passion of Our Lord.

 Chapter VI. Of the Love of Benevolence Which We Exercise towards Our Saviour by Way of Desire.

 Chapter VII. How the Desire to Exalt and Magnify God Separates Us from Inferior Pleasures, and Makes Us Attentive to the Divine Perfections. 215

 Chapter VIII. How Holy Benevolence Produces the Praise of the Divine Well-Beloved. 217

 Chapter IX. How Benevolence Makes Us Call All Creatures to the Praise of God.

 Chapter X. How the Desire to Praise God Makes Us Aspire to Heaven.

 Chapter XI. How We Practise the Love of Benevolence in the Praises Which Our Saviour and His Mother Give to God.

 Chapter XII. Of the Sovereign Praise Which God Gives unto Himself, and How We Exercise Benevolence in It.

 BOOK VI. OF THE EXERCISES OF HOLY LOVE IN PRAYER.

 Chapter I. A Description of Mystical Theology, Which Is No Other Thing Than Prayer.

 Chapter II. Of Meditation the First Degree of Prayer or Mystical Theology.

 Chapter III. A Description of Contemplation, and of the First Difference That There Is between It and Meditation.

 Chapter IV. That Love in This Life Takes Its Origin but Not Its Excellence from the Knowledge of God.

 Chapter V. The Second Difference between Meditation and Contemplation.

 Chapter VI. That Contemplation Is Made Without Labour, Which Is the Third Difference between It and Meditation.

 Chapter VII. Of the Loving Recollection of the Soul in Contemplation. 251

 Chapter VIII. Of the Repose of a Soul Recollected in Her Well-Beloved.

 Chapter IX. How This Sacred Repose Is Practised. 257

 Chapter X. Of Various Degrees of This Repose, and How It Is to Be Preserved. 259

 Chapter XI. A Continuation of the Discourse Touching the Various Degrees of Holy Quiet, and of an Excellent Abnegation of Self Which Is Sometimes Prac

 Chapter XII. Of the Outflowing (escoulement) or Liquefaction of the Soul in God 265

 Chapter XIII. Of the Wound of Love.

 Chapter XIV. Of Some Other Means by Which Holy Love Wounds the Heart. 272

 Chapter XV. Of the Affectionate Languishing of the Heart Wounded with Love.

 BOOK VII. OF THE UNION OF THE SOUL WITH HER GOD, WHICH IS PERFECTED IN PRAYER.

 Chapter I. How Love Effects the Union of the Soul with God in Prayer.

 Chapter II. Of the Various Degrees of the Holy Union Which Is Made in Prayer. 286

 Chapter III. Of the Sovereign Degree of Union by Suspension and Ravishment.

 Chapter IV. Of Rapture, and of the First Species of It. 294

 Chapter V. Of the Second Species of Rapture.

 Chapter VII. How Love Is the Life of the Soul, and Continuation of the Discourse on the Ecstatic Life.

 Chapter VIII. An Admirable Exhortation of S. Paul to the Ecstatic and Superhuman Life. 304

 Chapter IX. Of the Supreme Effect of Affective Love, Which Is the Death of the Lovers and First, of Such As Died in Love. 307

 Chapter X. Of Those Who Died by and for Divine Love.

 Chapter XI. How Some of the Heavenly Lovers Died Also of Love.

 Chapter XII. Marvellous History of the Death of a Gentleman Who Died of Love on Mount Olivet.

 Chapter XIII. That the Most Sacred Virgin Mother of God Died of Love for Her Son.

 Chapter XIV. That the Glorious Virgin Died by and Extremely Sweet and Tranquil Death.

 BOOK VIII. OF THE LOVE OF CONFORMITY, BY WHICH WE UNITE OUR WILL TO THE WILL OF GOD, SIGNIFIED UNTO US BY HIS COMMANDMENTS, COUNSELS AND INSPIRATIONS.

 Chapter I. Of the Love of Conformity Proceeding from Sacred Complacency.

 Chapter III. How We Are to Conform Ourselves to That Divine Will Which Is Called the Signified Will.

 Chapter IV. Of the Conformity of Our Will to the Will Which God Has to Save Us. 332

 Chapter V. Of the Conformity of Our Will to That Will of God's Which Is Signified to Us by His Commandments.

 Chapter VI. Of the Conformity of Our Will to That Will of God Which Is Signified unto Us by His Counsels. 337

 Chapter VIII. That the Contempt of the Evangelical Counsels Is a Great Sin.

 Chapter IX. A Continuation of the Preceding Discourse. How Every One, While Bound to Love, Is Not Bound to Practise, All the Evangelical Counsels, and

 Chapter X. How We Are to Conform Ourselves to God's Will Signfied unto Us by Inspirations, and First, of the Variety of the Means by Which God Inspire

 Chapter XI. Of the Union of Our Will with God's in the Inspirations Which Are Given for the Extraordinary Practice of Virtues and of Perseverance in

 Chapter XII. Of the Union of Man's Will with God's in Those Inspirations Which Are Contrary to Ordinary Laws and of Peace and Tranquility of Heart, S

 Chapter XIII. Third Mark of Inspiration, Which Is Holy Obedience to the Church and Superiors. 359

 Chapter XIV. A Short Method to Know God's Will. 362

 Chapter I. Of the Union of Our Will to That Divine Will Which Is Called the Will of Good-Pleasure.

 Chapter II. That the Union of Our Will with the Good-Pleasure of God Takes Place Principally in Tribulations.

 Chapter III. Of the Union of Our Will to the Divine Good-Pleasure in Spiritual Afflictions, by Resignation. 371

 Chapter IV. Of the Union of Our Will to the Good-Pleasure of God by Indifference. 373

 Chapter V. That Holy Indifference Extends to All Things.

 Chapter VI. Of the Practice of Loving Indifference, in Things Belonging to the Service of God.

 Chapter VII. Of the Indifference Which We Are to Have As to Our Advancement in Virtues.

 Chapter VIII. How We Are to Unite Our Will with God's in the Permission of Sins.

 Chapter IX. How the Purity of Indifference is to Be Practised in the Actions of Sacred Love. 388

 Chapter X. Means to Discover When We Change in the Matter of This Holy Love. 390

 Chapter XI. Of the Perplexity of a Heart Which Loves Without Knowing Whether It Pleases the Beloved.

 Chapter XII. How the Soul amidst These Interior Anguishes Knows Not the Love She Bears to God: and of the Most Lovefull Death of the Will. 395

 Chapter XIII. How the Will Being Dead to Itself Lives Entirely in God's Will. 398

 Chapter XIV. An Explanation of What Has Been Said Touching the Decease of Our Will.

 Chapter XV. Of the Most Excellent Exercise We Can Make in the Interior and Exterior Troubles of This Life, After Attaining the Indifference and Death

 Chapter XVI. Of the Perfect Stripping of the Soul Which Is United to God's Will.

 BOOK X. OF THE COMMANDMENT OF LOVING GOD ABOVE ALL THINGS.

 Chapter I. Of the Sweetness of the Commandment Which God Has Given Us of Loving Him Above All Things.

 Chapter II. That This Divine Commandment of Love Tends to Heaven, Yet Is Given to the Faithful in This World.

 Chapter III. How, While the Whole Heart Is Employed in Sacred Love, Yet One May Love God in Various Ways, and Also Many Other Things Together with Him

 Chapter IV. Of Two Degrees of Perfection with Which This Commandment May Be Kept in This Mortal Life.

 Chapter V. Of Two Other Degrees of Greater Perfection, by Which We May Love God Above All Things.

 Chapter VI. That the Love of God Above All Things Is Common to All Lovers.

 Chapter VII. Explanation of the Preceding Chapter.

 EXPLANATION OF THE PRECEDING CHAPTER.

 Chapter VIII. A Memorable History to Make Clearly Understood in What the Force and Excellence of Holy Love Consist. 430

 Chapter XI. How Holy Charity Produces the Love of Our Neighbour. 440

 Chapter XIII. How God Is Jealous of Us.

 Chapter XV. Advice for the Direction of Holy Zeal.

 Chapter XVI. That the Example of Certain Saints Who Seem to Have Exercised Their Zeal with Anger, Makes Nothing against the Doctrine of the Preceding

 THAT THE EXAMPLE OF CERTAIN SAINTS WHO SEEM TO HAVE EXERCISED THEIR ZEAL WITH ANGER, MAKES NOTHING AGAINST THE DOCTRINE OF THE PRECEDING CHAPTER.

 Chapter XVII. How Our Lord Practised All the Most Excellent Acts of Love.

 BOOK XI. OF THE SOVEREIGN AUTHORITY WHICH SACRED LOVE HOLDS OVER ALL THE VIRTUES, ACTIONS AND PERFECTIONS OF THE SOUL.

 Chapter I. How Agreeable All Virtues Are to God.

 Chapter II. That Divine Love Makes the Virtues Immeasurably More Agreeable to God than They Are of Their Own Nature.

 Chapter III. That There Are Some Virtues Which Divine Love Raises to a Higher Degree of Excellence than Others.

 Chapter V. How Love Spreads Its Excellence Over the Other Virtues, Perfecting Their Particular Excellence. 475

 Chapter VI. Of the Excellent Value Which Sacred Love Gives to the Actions Which Issue from Itself and to Those Which Proceed from the Other Virtues. 4

 Chapter VII. That Perfect Virtues Are Never One without the Other.

 Chapter VIII. How Charity Comprehends All the Virtues.

 Chapter IX. That the Virtues Have Their Perfection from Divine Love. 489

 Chapter X. A Digression upon the Imperfection of the Virtues of the Pagans.

 Chapter XI. How Human Actions Are Without Worth When They Are Done without Divine Love.

 Chapter XII. How Holy Love Returning into the Soul, Brings Back to Life All the Works Which Sin Had Destroyed.

 Chapter XIII. How We Are to Reduce All the Exercise of Virtues, and All Our Actions to Holy Love.

 Chapter XIV. The Practice of What Has Been Said in the Preceding Chapter.

 THE PRACTICE OF WHAT HAS BEEN SAID IN THE PRECEDING CHAPTER.

 Chapter XV. How Charity Contains in It the Gifts of the Holy Ghost. 509

 Chapter XVI. Of the Loving Fear of Spouses a Continuation of the Same Subject.

 Chapter XVII. How Servile Fear Remains Together with Holy Love. 514

 Chapter XVIII. How Love Makes Use of Natural, Servile and Mercenary Fear.

 Chapter XIX. How Sacred Love Contains the Twelve Fruits of the Holy Ghost, together with the Eight Beatitudes of the Gospel.

 Chapter XX. How Divine Love Makes Use of All the Passions and Affections of the Soul, and Reduces Them to Its Obedience.

 BOOK XII. CONTAINING CERTAIN COUNSELS FOR THE PROGRESS OF THE SOUL IN HOLY LOVE.

 Chapter I. That Our Progress in Holy Love Does Not Depend on Our Natural Temperament.

 Chapter II. That We Are to Have a Continual Desire to Love.

 Chapter III. That to Have the Desire of Sacred Love We Are to Cut Off All Other Desires.

 Chapter IV. That Our Lawful Occupations Do Not Hinder Us from Practicising Divine Love. 538

 Chapter V. A Very Sweet Example on This Subject.

 Chapter VI. That We Are to Employ in the Practice of Divine Love All the Occasions That Present Themselves.

 Chapter VII. That We Must Take Pains to Do Our Actions Very Perfectly. 542

 Chapter VIII. A General Means for Applying Our Works to God's Service. 543

 Chapter IX. Of Certain Other Means by Which We May Apply Our Works More Particularly to the Love of God.

 Chapter X. An Exhortation to the Sacrifice Which We Are to Make to God of Our Free-Will.

 Chapter XI. The Motives We Have of Holy Love.

 Chapter XII. A Most Useful Method of Employing These Motives.

 Chapter XIII. That Mount Calvary Is the Academy of Love. 554

Chapter V. Of Two Other Degrees of Greater Perfection, by Which We May Love God Above All Things.

OF TWO OTHER DEGREES OF GREATER PERFECTION, BY WHICH WE MAY LOVE GOD ABOVE ALL THINGS.

Now there are other souls who neither love superfluities, nor yet with superfluity, but love only that which God wills and as he wills:—blessed souls, who love God, their friends in God, and their enemies for God; they love many things together with God, but none at all, save in God and for God: it is God that they love, not only above all things, but even in all things, and all things in God, resembling the phœnix when perfectly renewed in youth and strength, which is never seen but in the air, or upon the tops of mountains that are in high air: for so these souls love nothing but in God; though indeed they love many things with God, and God with many things. S. Luke recounts that our Saviour invited a young man to follow him, who indeed loved him dearly, but who had also a great affection for his father, and thereupon had a mind to return home to him. But our Saviour cuts off this superfluity of love, and excites him to a love more pure, that he may not only love our Saviour more than his father, but not even love his father at all, but in our Saviour. Let the dead bury their dead: but as for thee (who 422hast met with life), go thou, and preach the kingdom of God.[1] And these souls, as you see, Theotimus, having so great a union with the spouse, merit to share his rank, and to be queens, as he is king; since they are entirely dedicated to him without any division or separation, having no affections out of him, or without him, but only in him and for him.

But, at last, above all these souls, there is yet one most only one, who is the queen of queens, the most loving, the most lovely, and the most beloved, of all the friends of the divine beloved, who not only loves God above all things and in all things, but also loves only God in all things, so that she loves not many things, but one only thing, which is God himself. And whereas it is God alone whom she loves in all that she loves, she loves him indifferently in all things, according as his good-pleasure may require, outside all things and without all things. If it be only Esther that Assuerus loves, why should he love her more when perfumed and adorned, than in her ordinary attire? If it be my Saviour only that I love, why shall I not as much love Mount Calvary as Mount Thabor, since he is as truly on the one, as on the other? And why shall I not as affectionately in one as in the other say: It is good for us to be here.[1] I love my Saviour in Egypt, without loving Egypt; why shall I not love him at the banquet of Simon the leper, without loving the banquet? And if I love him amidst the blasphemies which are poured upon him, not loving the blasphemies, why shall I not love him perfumed with Magdalen's ointment, without loving either the ointment or its scent? It is the true sign that we love only God in all things, when we love him equally in all things, because he being always equal to himself, the inequality of our love towards him must needs proceed from the consideration of something that is not himself. Now this sacred loving one loves no more her God with all the world, than if he were alone without the world: because all that is out of God, and is not God, is nothing to her. She is an all-pure soul who loves not even Paradise but because her beloved is loved there: and he is so sovereignly beloved in his Paradise that if yet he had no Paradise 423to bestow, he would neither appear less amiable, nor be less beloved of this generous loving heart, who cannot love the Paradise of her spouse but only her spouse of Paradise, and who puts no less price on Calvary while her spouse is there crucified, than upon Paradise where he is glorified. He that weighs one of the little balls of the heart of S. Clare of Montefalco, finds it as heavy as all the three together. So does perfect love find God as amiable all alone, as it finds all creatures together with him, since it loves all creatures only in God and for God.

Souls in this degree of perfection are so rare that each one is called the only one of her mother, who is divine Providence; she is called the one dove, for whom the love of her mate is all; she is termed perfect, because by love she is made the same thing with the sovereign Perfection, whence she may say with a most humble truth: I to my beloved and his turning towards me.[1] Now there is no one save the most blessed Virgin our Lady, who has perfectly arrived at this height of excellence in the love of her dearly beloved: for she is a dove so singularly singular in love, that all the rest being compared to her are rather to be termed daws than doves. But leaving this peerless queen in her matchless eminence,—there have yet been other souls who have been in such estate of pure love that in comparison with others they might take the rank of queens, of only doves, of perfect friends of the spouse. For I pray you, Theotimus, what must he needs have been, who with all his heart sang to God: What have I in heaven, and besides thee what do I desire upon earth?[1] And he that cried out: I count all things but as dung that I may gain Christ;[1]—did he not testify that he loved nothing out of his master, and that he loved his master without any other things? And what must have been the feelings of that great lover, who sighed all the night: "My God is to me all things." Such were S. Augustine, S. Bernard, the two SS. Catharine, of Siena and of Genoa, and many others, in imitation of whom every one may aspire to this divine degree of love: rare and singular souls, who resemble no longer the birds of this world, no not the very phœnix itself, though so singularly rare; but 424are only represented by that bird which, for its excellent beauty and nobleness is said not to be of this world, but of Paradise, of which it bears the name. For this fair bird disdaining the earth, never touches it, but lives above in the air; yea even when it desires to unweary itself, it will only cleave to the trees by little threads, hanging by them suspended in the air, out of which, or without which, it can neither fly nor repose. Even so these great souls do not, properly speaking, love creatures in themselves, but in their Creator, and their Creator in them. But if they cleave to any creature by the law of charity, it is only to repose in God, the single and final aim of their love. So that finding God in creatures, and creatures in God, they love God, not the creatures; as pearl-fishers, though they find the pearls in oysters, consider that they are simply fishing for pearls.

At the same time no mortal creature, as I think, ever loved the heavenly lover solely with this perfectly pure love, except that Virgin who was his spouse and mother both together; on the contrary, as regards the practice of these four differences of love, one can hardly live without passing from one of them to another. The souls which like young maidens are still entangled in some vain and dangerous affections are not, at times, without feelings of a purer and supreme love; but as these are but momentary and passing flashes, we cannot say that they raise them from the state of young novice, or apprentice, maidens. It happens also sometimes, to the souls who are in the degree of singular and perfect lovers, that they forget themselves and fail very sadly, even as far as to the committing great imperfections and grievous venial sins, as we see in various somewhat bitter dissensions which have occurred between great servants of God, yea even amongst some of the divine Apostles, who, as we cannot deny, fell into some imperfections; certainly charity was not violated by them, but the fervour of it was. Nevertheless, as these great souls ordinarily loved God with the perfectly pure love, we are not to say that they were not in the state of perfect love. For as we see that good trees never produce any hurtful fruit, yet sometimes bear green or defective and worm-eaten fruit, or mistletoe and moss; so great saints never produce any 425mortal sin, but still they produce some useless, immature, harsh, rough and ill-flavoured actions. In such cases we must allow that these trees are fruitful, otherwise they would not be good trees; but still we must not deny that some of their fruits are fruitless. For who will deny that catkins and the mistletoe of trees are fruitless fruits? And who also will deny that slight angers and little excesses of joy, of laughter, of vanity and of other similar passions, are unprofitable and unlawful movements? Yet the just man brings them forth seven times a day, that is, very often.